Bulletin N° 994
Subject: An informed discussion on the effects of
the MRNA vaccine.
Grenoble,
August 25, 2021
Dear
Colleagues and Friends of CEIMSA,
This
news item was recently received at CEIMSA, for your evaluation.
Sincerely,
Francis
McCollum Feeley
--
Professeur honoraire de l'Université Grenoble-Alpes
Ancien Directeur des Researches
Université de Paris-Nanterre
Director of The Center for the Advanced Study
of American Institutions and Social Movements
(CEIMSA-in-Exile)
The University of California-San Diego
http://www.ceimsa.org
“Microbiologist
Explains COVID Jab Effects” – with Dr. Dr. Joseph Mercola Dr. Sucharit
Bhakdi.
(1:01:56)
or
https://noqreport.com/2021/08/22/microbiologist-dr-sucharit-bhakdi-explains-covid-jab-effects/
(1:01:56)
Published
August 22, 2021
________________________
Bhakdi’s
Medical Credentials:
Bhakdi
graduated from medical school in Germany in 1970. After a year of clinical
work, he joined the Max Planck Institute of Immunobiology, where he remained
for four years as a post-doc.
The transcript of this
interview.
“Corona
Unmasked: New Facts and Figures A Special Interview With Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi”
by Dr. Joseph Mercola
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Welcome everyone. Dr. Mercola, helping you take control of your
health and continuing to keep you updated and informed on the COVID-19
pandemic. And in effort to do that we have Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi, who is a
microbiologist in Germany. And we're connecting with them in Germany at this
time. So, welcome and thank you for joining us today.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi:
Thank you for having me.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
So, can you provide us with a little bit of your background with
respect to professional training? You're a microbiologist and maybe run over
some of the academic credentials and affiliations you've had and what you're
doing now?
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi:
Well, I graduated from medical school in Germany. That was back
in 1970. And then after a year of clinical work, I joined the Max Planck
Institute of immunobiology [and Epigenetics] to learn how to do science. And I
stayed there for four years as a post-doc where I began my research in
immunology. I
researched the complement system and was involved in identifying
the magic bullet of the complement system, which causes wrongly transfused
erythrocytes to [inaudible 00:01:22]. My first piece of work was done on that.
And then it went into microbiology, bacteriology and discovered that bacteria,
most of them, produced similar weapons to use against us. And that's what set
off my career as a microbiologist. So, I ended up chairing the department of
medical, microbiology and hygiene at the University of Mainz where I stayed for
22 years until my retirement nine years ago.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Okay. Well, thank you for that. So, you have a very prestigious
pedigree, the academic history. You're an MD/Ph.D. and for those who aren't
familiar with it, why don't you say a few words about the Max Planck Institute?
Because it's one of the most prestigious institutes for science in the world. I
believe.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi:
Well, it used to be.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Yeah. So, maybe tell us where it used to be when you were
working and what's happened since then?
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi:
Well, the Max Planck Institute where I was, was famous because
the discoverers of the so-called endotoxin, which is what leads to septic shock
and death during severe infections was partly discovered there. And that's
where the center of immunology was based at that time. Those were in the ‘70s.
And that's why I went there. In fact, it was also the first institution in
Germany where membranes of cells were analyzed to see what was going on within
the membrane itself. And that's how I stumbled across the magic bullet of the
complement system because I discovered that a complement, when it is activated,
shoots bullets into the membranes of your cells. And that's what kills you.
Now, all of this is coming back to, is completing a whole circle in my life,
because it now turns out that the coronavirus is also employing this method of
using our own immune system to the path of self-destruction. And that is what I
think is one of the major paths to adverse events after vaccination.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Yes, indeed. So, you're eminently scientifically qualified to
comment in this area because you've spent the majority of your professional
life studying these issues. So, we're eagerly looking forward to the
conclusions you've reached. I think most of your comments have been directed to
the vaccine. I think that's probably a good place to start, because that seems
to be the objective of this whole “plandemic” narrative is to manipulate,
brainwash, cajole people into getting the vaccine.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi:
I agree entirely.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Yeah. I mean, this is where we're at and we need to understand
this. And I think you're providing us with an overall perspective will help many
people. Now having said that, I am convinced without any shadow of a doubt we
are in the middle of one of the most effective propaganda campaigns ever
engineered in the history of the human race.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
And as a result of that propaganda and brainwashing, literally
half the population is essentially unable to think rationally or logically when
they're presented with facts. So, we have to understand that many people who
need to hear this presented on a silver platter, will just ignore it and choose
to believe it's
fake or it's just not correct. So, that's okay. Because there's
half of the people who aren't brainwashed and that's who we're speaking to. So,
why don't you give us your perspective as to what's been happening? I've got a
lot of specific questions, but I'll let you start it off by painting the broad
strokes.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi:
Well, I agree with all of what you said, and I have actually
nothing to add to that. Our whole efforts, our entire efforts, my efforts of my
wife, Karina Reiss and myself are currently directed at providing information
about the so-called vaccination, because we believe that this vaccination
agenda and program is the greatest threat to humanity. The greatest threat that
humanity has ever come up against. And it is our duty to aggressively inform
people about the dangers that they are subjecting themselves and their beloved
ones to by this vaccination.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Okay. That's a good place to start. And as again, I want to
emphasize that you are more than eminently qualified academically to comment on
this because of your decades of experience in this area. So, why don't you-
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi:
I also worked on development of vaccines.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Oh yeah. That's another point I wanted to bring up. You are not
anti-vax. I am typically perceived as anti-vax, because I have been opposed to
routine vaccinations for probably over three decades now. And I did provide
vaccination immunizations in my medical practice up until about the early ‘90s,
before I
began to understand or realize that there was enormous
complications with them. But that is not the position you've taken. You
actually are pro-vax and I suspect you've received most of your vaccinations up
to date, but with this one you've turned around. So, maybe you can expand on
that before you go into discussion, because I think many people will choose to
paint you untruthfully as an anti-vaxxer.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi:
I would modify that a little bit. I certainly am pro-vax with
regards to the vaccinations that work and that are meaningful. And with that, I
will also say tetanus, diphtheria, yes, anytime. However, I have not been pro
[to] the recommendations that have been given. So, I would never say that
infants, little children, should be vaccinated against diphtheria and tetanus
because they are not endangered. If you say-
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Or hepatitis B, even more insane at day one of birth.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi:
Yes. Well, exactly. I'm not for that. I would be for tetanus and
diphtheria at the right age, before they enter school, for instance, where the
danger of getting aluminum poisoning has subsided. And I would never go for
vaccination of infants with diphtheria, tetanus and pneumococcal, as they're
doing in Germany, creating massive, thousands of poor children who suffer from
aluminum intoxication. So,
whereas I say I am pro-vax, I will say so only for the
vaccinations that are really meaningful. And this does not pertain for
instance, to influenza, to the flu. It does not pertain necessarily to shingles
and it certainly does not pertain to corona.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Okay, great. So, thank you for refining that characterization of
your position because I think it's important to do that. And that is a rational
perspective, and it's really hard to argue against it if you're objective, from
my perspective. So, thank you for refining that. So, why don't we dive into the
primary reasons for your objections to the coronavirus vaccine, which
extensively, and maybe I can dive into a little bit of the historical
perspective, was characterized as being 95% effective or in that range, because
there was a number of different vaccine manufacturers out there, but in a
sense, 95% effective.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
And that was essentially a massive statistical aberration
because they conflated relative risk and absolute risk. So, the absolute risk
was probably closer to 1% or 2%. Or even under 1%, I think it was under 1%.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi:
Under 1%.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Yeah. So, I definitely want you to dive deeper into that because
you're really well trained and qualified to comment on it. And I like the fact
that you're calling it immune enhancement because I think that's more accurate.
Typically for those who are watching and may appreciate that, typically this is
referred to as ADE or antibody-dependent enhancement, which I don't think is as
good as – I like to term PIE or paradoxical because it doesn't make sense. It
does the exact opposite of what it's supposed to do, immune enhancement. So,
why don't you discuss what's happening? Because I think this is the crux and
really forms the foundational basis for your concern. Some of the projections
I've heard you stated earlier as to the outcome of what's going to happen to
most of the people who've been vaccinated.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi:
I mean, I will start by saying something that we've also written
in our book, that there are two major arms of defense against infection. One,
against viral infection, one are the antibodies that, if they are present, may
prevent the virus from entering the cells. These are so-called neutralizing
antibodies, which the vaccination is supposed to – yes. But since the
antibodies directed against respiratory viruses are not really there at the place
that they are needed, which is on the surface of the airway epithelium. They
are in the blood, but not at the surface of the epithelium where the virus
arrives. Most respiratory viruses will be able to enter the lung cells. And the
second arm of immune defense then comes into play. And these are the
lymphocytes.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi:
Now there are different types of lymphocytes and I will simplify
matters by saying the important lymphocytes are the so-called killer
lymphocytes that sense whenever a virus product is being produced in the cell
and they will then come and destroy the cells that harbor the virus and thus is
the factory closed. And people get well again. That is the mechanism how we can
survive viral infections of the lung. And this happens all the time. So, the
lymphocytes in contrast to the antibodies recognize many, many, many parts of
the proteins. All right. So, if a virus changes a little bit, it doesn't
matter, because the waste products that are recognized by the killer
lymphocytes remain very similar. And that is why all of
us, and this is now known, all of us have memory lymphocytes in
our lymph nodes and in our lymphoid organs that are trained to recognize these
coronaviruses. And whether or not a mutant is there, it doesn't really matter,
because they will recognize a mutant.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Or variants, is what they're calling [crosstalk 00:24:14].
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi:
Or variants, the same, variants. But the variants you see,
aren't really altered so much.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Right, it's pretty minor.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi:
It's extremely little because coronaviruses can only undergo
point mutations. Meaning only one nucleotide at a time can be changed. This is the
difference to flu. The flu virus can completely change its spike protein by
exchanging the spike protein. One virus can exchange it's spike protein with
another virus if two viruses are in the cell. This sort of shift is not
possible with coronaviruses. And therefore you will never have leaps in
antigenic changes either for antibodies or for T-cell killer lymphocytes. And
that's why the background immunity, I don't want to talk about herd immunity,
but the background immunity that evolves during the lifetime of a human being
is very broad and very solid. And that's why when the virus enters the body of
a 17-year-old, who has not any preexisting illness, the virus is not going to
kill that man or woman.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi:
It cannot. We are immune. And in fact, this is the good news.
There have been papers appearing in June that have collectively shown that,
indeed, our immune system already knows this new virus and is already trained
in combat with this virus. And this is absolutely clear and conclusive that
evidence is there and anyone can go and read those papers that have shown that
the response to vaccination. If you're vaccinated today, the immune system
immediately responds by throwing out the antibodies that everyone wants. They
are already in the treasure trove of the immune system. Plus the killer
lymphocytes that you need in case the virus gets to the lung. And that is that.
In fact, because these
papers have been published, we now know that the narrative that
this virus is new and therefore dangerous because the immune system cannot
recognize it is a lie. It's wrong.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Yeah, it is.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi:
Proven to be wrong. So, now we have no reason whatsoever to
vaccinate. First of all – yeah.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Well, let's dive into the herd immunity because that's the crux
of the issue. And I really want to focus on what are the most egregious
nullifications or decimation of medical scientific truths. And that is the
concept that unless you have immunity from the vaccine, you're not protected.
It doesn't matter if you've received natural immunity, which is far different,
far superior, infinitely more superior. Let's go
into it. So, I want you, you're so qualified to go into this,
this is why I wanted to discuss it. You had mentioned these antibodies that are
in the blood and not on the epithelial surfaces. Well, the antibodies are three
types IgG, which is the long-term, IgM, the acute. And then you got secretory
IgA. So, I'm thinking that in the natural infection you have the secretory IgA
but the vaccine does not produce that, but maybe it does. So, then of course,
you've got the lymphocyte too. So, why don't you expand on that a bit, just to
clarify and help us understand why natural immunity is infinitely superior to a
vaccine-induced immunity?
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi:
Well, the antibodies don't really, they're not enough of them.
The struggle between antibodies and virus is a struggle of numbers. So, one
antibody can bind one spike point and once it's bound, it's gone. So, even if
you have secretory IgA out there lining the epithelium, which you do, but you
have minuscule
amounts of it. That's known, it's minuscule. The moment the
viral load is high, they just overrun. It's that simple. So, the antibody – so
the virus will always get into the lung just as the flu does, but then the
killer lymphocytes will come and extinguish the fire. Now, in that process, of
course, viruses may enter the blood. When lung tissue is destroyed, virus may
enter the blood, and then maybe the antibodies will play a protective role by
preventing the virus from disseminating via the bloodstream to other organs.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi:
In fact, it is known that the coronavirus does not disseminate
to other organs. It is known that the spike protein, it can dissociate away and
by itself, on its own, travel to distant sites in the body. And that can also
be partly suppressed by antibodies, probably. But this is not a big deal. The
big deal are the lymphocytes, which are the naturally occurring cells that
protect you. And of course, accination that is aimed primarily at creating IgG
antibodies in the blood have no way of competing with natural immunity via
lymphocytes, no way at all. And the very fact that the WHO (World Health
Organization) has changed the definition of herd immunity to say that
[crosstalk 00:30:27] created by antibodies by vaccination is
such a scandal. I'm at a loss of words to describe how
ridiculous I find this all, that this is being accepted by our colleagues. I
mean, your colleagues and my colleagues. How can the physicians and scientists
of the world bear to have to listen to all this nonsense?
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Just to be clear, the killer lymphocytes seem to be the
champions here at providing the bulk of the immune response that's going to
protect us against devastating side effects from the infection. And it's your
contention that the COVID injections do not stimulate killer lymphocyte
production.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi:
I did not say that.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Okay. Well then that's why I asked for clarification. [crosstalk
00:31:25].
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi:
I didn't say that. On the contrary, they will. However, this is
going to be at the expense of the patients, because this is going to create
horrible, adverse side effects. Now, let me just try to tell you what I think.
You see, normally this virus will stay in the lung because it's sort of
captured there by the killer lymphocytes. So we have a lung infection and the
lung can recuperate, can recover from this after the virus has gone. What a man
is now daring to do is that he is daring to introduce a viral gene, the gene of
dangerous gene into the blood, so that it gains access to sites that it would
never gain access to in normal conditions. And these are two main sites. First,
the lymph nodes, the lymph nodes that drain the
muscles. And second, once the genes have entered the bloodstream, they
will enter the cells that line the vessels, which are the endothelial cells.
These are the cells that line all the vessels of our body down to the
capillaries from the big to the smallest.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Can you just, I can just hold you there and just ask a quick
question. The vaccine or the COVID injection jab is injected into the deltoid
muscle into the arm. So, can you just walk us through how it gets from there
into the blood?
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi:
Yeah, very simple, the path that is well-known is that it drains
to the lymph nodes and things that are in the lymph nodes then go into the
bloodstream. In the case of these nanoparticles, however, there may be another
way in, and that is the direct translocation from the muscle into the small
vessels because these lipid packages [crosstalk 00:33:45] are not only so
small, they have special properties of being dangerous, and what is known about
side effects. This cannot be done with children because children are not in the
position to understand it. Therefore, they cannot give informed consent.
Therefore, they cannot be vaccinated. If anyone does that, he should be set
tomorrow before a tribunal. If grownups
have been informed and want to get the shot, that's all right.
But don't force anyone to get the shot. It has to be by informed consent only.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Yeah, that's it, informed consent is virtually impossible
currently because anything, any attempt to inform people of the negative
consequences of the injection of this substance into your body is essentially
censored. And in many cases it's banned. So, it's a very effective strategy.
So, they're only getting one side. They're not getting the other side and you
can't have informed consent without hearing both sides.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi:
Yeah. Right. Correct. The parents should now step in and say,
“We will not allow our children to be vaccinated.” And it is almost common
knowledge among anyone who's been thinking about that. That the risks in
pregnancy are bound and we believe that many stillbirths are a result of these
vaccinations. Furthermore, these
vaccines accumulate in the ovaries and testes, and we are horribly worried that
there's going to be an impact on fertility. And this will be seen in years or
decades from now. And this is potentially one of the greatest crimes, simply
one of the greatest crimes imaginable.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Yeah. It's certainly the greatest experiment in human history.
It's just unequivocal. There's no doubt about it. So, the first step is if
you're watching this is, if you've gotten the vaccine, you've gotten it.
There's nothing you can do but you certainly don't want to get a booster. And
it looks every bit is what people were projecting. Many were projecting,
actually, is they're going to come up with booster recommendations. Maybe once, twice, even
three times a year you're supposed to get your booster. So, that's the last thing
you want to do is get another booster injection on this. The more you get, the
worse it's going to be, and the more consequences that you're going to have as
a result. So, why don't you expand on that? And we can, then going to discuss
another component.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi:
Absolutely. I mean, there's nothing more to say. You see the
orchestra is being told to play louder and louder and louder. The damage is
going to get worse and worse and worse. In the end, I predict that we're going
to see mass illnesses and deaths among the healthy people who normally would
have wonderful lives ahead of them. Yeah. It's [crosstalk 00:54:15].
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Do you have an idea of the range that you're projecting is that
we might have those?
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi:
No.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Because I mean, already, we've got, I mean, it's hard to tell
because there's such a limited databases. We're recording this is close to 13,000,
500,000 adverse events. Some are projecting that a minimum of five times. That
is what the actuality is, because they're just not reported this. And they were
six months
into this or seven months.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi:
Yeah. So, I'm not a mathematician, but you ask a computer to do
some computing and you'll come up with numbers that are so horrifying that you
can't imagine that they can get through with this program.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
By then it's going to be too late. So, have you come up with any
recommendations for those who've already gotten it? I mean, the primary one is
don't get another one. I mean, that's the number one most important strategy,
but then there's, once people become enlightened and understand that there's a
risk to what they've done or forced to do for whatever reason,
what is their next step aside from not getting the next one?
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi:
The next step is that they should realize that if they contact a
real infection now in autumn, they have to realize that there are good
medicines to treat the infection. All right. And they should insist that they
get it.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Okay. So, yes, I actually interviewed Dr. Vladimir Zelenko. And
he's responsible for creating many effective protocols. So, in his contention
is, is that just like you stated the time, if you're exposed to this infection
at the very first sign of a symptom, you've got to jump on this. You literally
have like 48 hours before it could be too late. The longer you wait the worse
it's going to be.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi:
That sounds very dramatic, but you should do something about it
as soon as possible.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Well, it's his experience. I mean, he's got pretty significant
experience in this in the front lines. So, that's what he recommends because of
the viral replication. Exactly what you were saying earlier, the more viral
load there is, the worse the problem.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi:
Yes. Well, okay. I don't think we have to say he said so. Yes,
it's fine with me.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Yeah, I know. And there's a wide variety of different treatments
that are available and certainly the conventional ones like ivermectin and
hydroxychloroquine, and quercetin and zinc.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi:
Sure, sure, sure.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
All right, well, I think that covers most of the questions I had
and I really am deeply appreciative of your lending your expertise and refining
some of my understanding of the pathology that was going on, especially with
respect to paradoxical immune enhancement. Do you have any other comments you'd
like to make or reinforce some of the earlier ones you made?
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi:
I think I've said everything I have to say.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Okay, good. All right. And then the final question is, you had
alluded to the fact that you've written at least one book, maybe two. And I
think the current one is written in German, but you did have one of the most
important chapters converted to English and that's available as a free
download. So, how does
someone obtain a copy of that?
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi:
You go to the publisher, Goldegg.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Can you spell that?
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi:
Yeah, it's G-O-L-D-E-G-G.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Goldegg, G-O-L-D-E-G-G. Okay. Dot com
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi:
Put in a Bhakdi or put in “Corona Unmasked.”
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
“Corona Unmasked,” which is the title of your new book.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi:
Of the book. Although it's in German, the title is English. All
right.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
It's good.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi:
Going there then to the left of the book, you will see a link to
an English chapter.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Okay, perfect.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi:
That's it.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
And I just have one personal curiosity. You've been in Germany
for what? Four decades.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi:
Yeah, more.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Why don't you have a German accent and what type of accent do
you have? I mean, clearly it's a very pleasant British type of accent.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi:
I went to an English school and an American school in Egypt.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Oh, interesting. Okay. So, that explains it. And you didn't pick
up any German accent, that's interesting. So, and you speak German fluently, I
would imagine.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi:
Yes.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, thanks to you for all your work and
efforts and people will – I look forward to reading that chapter.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi:
Please do.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
Yeah, I will. All right, well, thanks again. Appreciate all your
help.
Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi:
You're welcome and goodbye.
Dr. Joseph Mercola:
All right, bye.